http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
%22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
%3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
=21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426

This may work better http://tinyurl.com/ccja5so

Don't tell the "chemtrail" conspiracy guys....

On Jun 19, 9:26*am, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
> This may work betterhttp://tinyurl.com/ccja5so
>
> Don't tell the "chemtrail" conspiracy guys....

11 valves to leak, stick, break, adjust, or at least fill with
chapstick and fiddle with?
John Cochrane

On Tuesday, 19 June 2012 08:35:58 UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
> On Jun 19, 9:26*am, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
> > This may work betterhttp://tinyurl.com/ccja5so
> >
> > Don't tell the "chemtrail" conspiracy guys....
>
> 11 valves to leak, stick, break, adjust, or at least fill with
> chapstick and fiddle with?
> John Cochrane

Dave Nadler has some details in his blog here http://www.nadler.com/public/2012_Minden/2012_Minden.html

scroll down a few screens.

I think I will get to Uvalde a few days early and buy up all the Plumbers toilet seal and chapstick. Then try to sell back to folks with the Quintuis and Anatares and make some big bucks!

I wonder how many fill ports it has? In other words the extent of interconnected ballast tanks.

I'll give the glider points for looking cool dumping water. Maybe I
could hire them to spray fertilizer on our grass runway!

- John

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:09:26 PM UTC-5, JohnDeRosa wrote:
> I'll give the glider points for looking cool dumping water. Maybe I
> could hire them to spray fertilizer on our grass runway!
>
> - John

i've heard there is a need for heavy airtanker firefighting capabilities out west.

On Jun 19, 9:35*am, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> On Jun 19, 9:26*am, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
>
> 11 valves to leak, stick, break, adjust, or at least fill with
> chapstick and fiddle with?
> John Cochrane

So, John, does this mean you are going to stick with your 27? :-)

ZS

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:49:16 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
> http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
> eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
> width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
> %22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
> %3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
> =21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426

I'll ignore the obnoxious comments below.

Hydraulic pressure is a really big problem.
When a glider spins, ground-loops, etc - lots of pressure !
Prototype ASW-22 was lost in a spin test with water - wing exploded.
Another had wing exploded during ground-loop.
Some systems to alleviate pressure rely on partial air in tank - marginal.
New gliders need extreme amounts of water to get to required high wing loading.
So.... Lots of tanks !

All of which means mechanical linkages (multiple wing panels)
get really unwieldy and impractical.

I designed the new dump system requiring:
- quickly field-removable valves for cleaning debris or replacement,
- very high reliability compared to silly servo-based systems,
- absolute minimal mechanical complexity in wings,
- flush with outer wing surface for minimal drag (without silly dangling mylar)

Valves have operated in a test rig 150,000 cycles without problem.
Try that with your silly servos.

If you pump in pond water a valve can jam with debris, small fish, or large fish.
Enough deposits and you need chapstick.
Or, pull it out and clean or replace it.

Significantly better than the alternatives we believe...

Hope that's clear !
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:46:11 PM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:49:16 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
> > http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
> > eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
> > width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
> > %22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
> > %3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
> > =21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426
>
> I'll ignore the obnoxious comments below.
>
> Hydraulic pressure is a really big problem.
> When a glider spins, ground-loops, etc - lots of pressure !
> Prototype ASW-22 was lost in a spin test with water - wing exploded.
> Another had wing exploded during ground-loop.
> Some systems to alleviate pressure rely on partial air in tank - marginal.
> New gliders need extreme amounts of water to get to required high wing loading.
> So.... Lots of tanks !
>
> All of which means mechanical linkages (multiple wing panels)
> get really unwieldy and impractical.
>
> I designed the new dump system requiring:
> - quickly field-removable valves for cleaning debris or replacement,
> - very high reliability compared to silly servo-based systems,
> - absolute minimal mechanical complexity in wings,
> - flush with outer wing surface for minimal drag (without silly dangling mylar)
>
> Valves have operated in a test rig 150,000 cycles without problem.
> Try that with your silly servos.
>
> If you pump in pond water a valve can jam with debris, small fish, or large fish.
> Enough deposits and you need chapstick.
> Or, pull it out and clean or replace it.
>
> Significantly better than the alternatives we believe...
>
> Hope that's clear !
> Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

PS: Antares 23T has 6 valves per side. An 6th water tank
is possible and required as this glider has no batteries
in wing (like 23E) or fuel tank in wing (like Quintus),
and has reduced weight (sustainer vs. self-launch).

I understand there will be one Antares 23T at Uvalde,
stand by for even better water-dump pictures ;-)

On Jun 19, 11:46*pm, Dave Nadler > wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:49:16 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
> >http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
> > eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
> > width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
> > %22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
> > %3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
> > =21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426
>
> I'll ignore the obnoxious comments below.
>
> Hydraulic pressure is a really big problem.
> When a glider spins, ground-loops, etc - lots of pressure !
> Prototype ASW-22 was lost in a spin test with water - wing exploded.
> Another had wing exploded during ground-loop.
> Some systems to alleviate pressure rely on partial air in tank - marginal..
> New gliders need extreme amounts of water to get to required high wing loading.
> So.... Lots of tanks !
>
> All of which means mechanical linkages (multiple wing panels)
> get really unwieldy and impractical.
>
> I designed the new dump system requiring:
> - quickly field-removable valves for cleaning debris or replacement,
> - very high reliability compared to silly servo-based systems,
> - absolute minimal mechanical complexity in wings,
> - flush with outer wing surface for minimal drag (without silly dangling mylar)
>
> Valves have operated in a test rig 150,000 cycles without problem.
> Try that with your silly servos.
>
> If you pump in pond water a valve can jam with debris, small fish, or large fish.
> Enough deposits and you need chapstick.
> Or, pull it out and clean or replace it.
>
> Significantly better than the alternatives we believe...
>
> Hope that's clear !
> Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Cool! Sorry for the snarky comments. I loved everything about my old
Discus CS except the ritual of sealing the water ballast plugs -- but
it sounds like you don't have 11 of those, and an important safety
improvement. And my 27 promptly choked on a bit of epoxy in the valve
on its second outing, requiring an interesting disassembly. Those 11
valves ought to dump pretty fast too.
John Cochrane

On Jun 21, 10:29*am, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> On Jun 19, 11:46*pm, Dave Nadler > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:49:16 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
> > >http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
> > > eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
> > > width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
> > > %22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
> > > %3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
> > > =21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426
>
> > I'll ignore the obnoxious comments below.
>
> > Hydraulic pressure is a really big problem.
> > When a glider spins, ground-loops, etc - lots of pressure !
> > Prototype ASW-22 was lost in a spin test with water - wing exploded.
> > Another had wing exploded during ground-loop.
> > Some systems to alleviate pressure rely on partial air in tank - marginal.
> > New gliders need extreme amounts of water to get to required high wing loading.
> > So.... Lots of tanks !
>
> > All of which means mechanical linkages (multiple wing panels)
> > get really unwieldy and impractical.
>
> > I designed the new dump system requiring:
> > - quickly field-removable valves for cleaning debris or replacement,
> > - very high reliability compared to silly servo-based systems,
> > - absolute minimal mechanical complexity in wings,
> > - flush with outer wing surface for minimal drag (without silly dangling mylar)
>
> > Valves have operated in a test rig 150,000 cycles without problem.
> > Try that with your silly servos.
>
> > If you pump in pond water a valve can jam with debris, small fish, or large fish.
> > Enough deposits and you need chapstick.
> > Or, pull it out and clean or replace it.
>
> > Significantly better than the alternatives we believe...
>
> > Hope that's clear !
> > Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"
>
> Cool! Sorry for the snarky comments. I loved everything about my old
> Discus CS except the ritual of sealing the water ballast plugs -- but
> it sounds like you don't have 11 of those, and an important safety
> improvement. And my 27 promptly choked on a bit of epoxy in the valve
> on its second outing, requiring an interesting disassembly. Those 11
> valves ought to dump pretty fast too.
> John Cochrane

Now those clever folks should figure out how to fill the tanks at the
top of each thermal.

On Thursday, June 21, 2012 10:04:44 AM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:
> On Jun 21, 10:29*am, John Cochrane >
> wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 11:46*pm, Dave Nadler > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:49:16 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
> > > >http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
> > > > eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
> > > > width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
> > > > %22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
> > > > %3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
> > > > =21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426
> >
> > > I'll ignore the obnoxious comments below.
> >
> > > Hydraulic pressure is a really big problem.
> > > When a glider spins, ground-loops, etc - lots of pressure !
> > > Prototype ASW-22 was lost in a spin test with water - wing exploded.
> > > Another had wing exploded during ground-loop.
> > > Some systems to alleviate pressure rely on partial air in tank - marginal.
> > > New gliders need extreme amounts of water to get to required high wing loading.
> > > So.... Lots of tanks !
> >
> > > All of which means mechanical linkages (multiple wing panels)
> > > get really unwieldy and impractical.
> >
> > > I designed the new dump system requiring:
> > > - quickly field-removable valves for cleaning debris or replacement,
> > > - very high reliability compared to silly servo-based systems,
> > > - absolute minimal mechanical complexity in wings,
> > > - flush with outer wing surface for minimal drag (without silly dangling mylar)
> >
> > > Valves have operated in a test rig 150,000 cycles without problem.
> > > Try that with your silly servos.
> >
> > > If you pump in pond water a valve can jam with debris, small fish, or large fish.
> > > Enough deposits and you need chapstick.
> > > Or, pull it out and clean or replace it.
> >
> > > Significantly better than the alternatives we believe...
> >
> > > Hope that's clear !
> > > Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"
> >
> > Cool! Sorry for the snarky comments. I loved everything about my old
> > Discus CS except the ritual of sealing the water ballast plugs -- but
> > it sounds like you don't have 11 of those, and an important safety
> > improvement. And my 27 promptly choked on a bit of epoxy in the valve
> > on its second outing, requiring an interesting disassembly. Those 11
> > valves ought to dump pretty fast too.
> > John Cochrane
>
> Now those clever folks should figure out how to fill the tanks at the
> top of each thermal.

Now with all this sophistication how about an electronic dump controller that allows dumping of different amount of ballast.

Darryl

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:46:11 PM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:49:16 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
> > http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?
> > eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FQuin_11stralig.jpg&
> > width=1024m&height=800m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgColor%3D
> > %22%23dddddd%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript
> > %3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5
> > =21b00ee34c627bb243eebb2518add426
>
> I'll ignore the obnoxious comments below.
>
> Hydraulic pressure is a really big problem.
> When a glider spins, ground-loops, etc - lots of pressure !
> Prototype ASW-22 was lost in a spin test with water - wing exploded.
> Another had wing exploded during ground-loop.
> Some systems to alleviate pressure rely on partial air in tank - marginal.
> New gliders need extreme amounts of water to get to required high wing loading.
> So.... Lots of tanks !
>
> All of which means mechanical linkages (multiple wing panels)
> get really unwieldy and impractical.
>
> I designed the new dump system requiring:
> - quickly field-removable valves for cleaning debris or replacement,
> - very high reliability compared to silly servo-based systems,
> - absolute minimal mechanical complexity in wings,
> - flush with outer wing surface for minimal drag (without silly dangling mylar)
>
> Valves have operated in a test rig 150,000 cycles without problem.
> Try that with your silly servos.
>
> If you pump in pond water a valve can jam with debris, small fish, or large fish.
> Enough deposits and you need chapstick.
> Or, pull it out and clean or replace it.
>
> Significantly better than the alternatives we believe...
>
> Hope that's clear !
> Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave,

Cool stuff. Anywhere we can see pictures of your mechanical wizardry?

Craig